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  • Writer's pictureTiffany Dorris

Pedagogy v. Andragogy: What's the big deal?

Updated: Jan 21, 2022

Is it really that different? How much do you need to know about adult learning theory as an ID?

Well the good news is, if you're a secondary teacher, you know most of it already. If you are an elementary teacher - the way we teach now is lightyears from the way things used to be (Like you didn't already know that!) and you probably know a lot more than you thought.


I found this comparison between Pedagogy and Andragogy and I have to say - I don't think the definition of pedagogy has been updated for at least 30 years.


For your reading pleasure - here is the University of Illinois: Springfield's definition (plus my $0.02).

You may also have heard about Adult Learning Theory, if you majored in Secondary Ed, you took the class. Or at least I did - I actually pulled out my undergrad transcripts. In the Fall of 2005, at York College of Pennsylvania - the class was called ED 371: Psychology of Learning (Secondary). I am guessing there must have been a Psych of Learning for Elementary majors too.


In any event, since I never taught elementary I can't speak to what elementary teachers do or don't do in their classroom. I do, however have 3 school-aged children (7th, 5th, and 3rd grade). I can tell you based on the types of projects I've had to buy supplies for, many of these "adult learning theories" are being applied in the elementary classroom too. But regardless, I will only talk about what I know.


I taught 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th grade English for 14 years. I was also an adjunct professor at ITT Tech for 2 semesters where I taught Rhetoric and Intro to Information Technology (NOTE: It didn't pay enough for the amount of work involved). So for the purposes of this blog post:


Child = < 11

Kid = > 12

Adult = someone who is paying their own bills (J/K - There are plenty of people who are paying their own bills who you would NOT consider an adult)


What is Adult Learning Theory?


The basic principal is that adults learn differently than kids and, therefore, must be taught differently. I will tell you from experience, adults aren't that different from kids. For one, neither of them know how to read directions. I would say that 90% of the emails that come in to my team about our courses are because someone didn't read the directions. Hmm, no teacher has any experience with that, right?


Two, when an adult learner is taking a training because their boss told them to, it is the same as little Johnny sitting in your class when he'd rather be at home playing video games. He's there because he as to be, but he's going to find literally every excuse possible to not do what you want him to do. If you're lucky, Johnny will at least pretend to do the assignment and turn in some piece of crap at the end of the class to keep you off his back. Then when he needs to actually apply the lesson to something relevant, like his job, he's going to give you negative feedback because you didn't teach it well. Yeah, that happens.


The term Andragogy was coined by Malcolm Knowles in the late 60s and is based on 5 pillars:

  1. Adults know who they are and what they need to know to do what they need to do. Kids for the most part are still figuring themselves out, especially in middle school. By junior/senior year in high school, they pretty much know who they are.

  2. Adults have lots of previous experiences to use to ground novel ideas and concepts. Most kids haven't done much, but there are a few who have had to deal with a lot and you can definitely tell them apart.

  3. Adults will take it upon themselves to learn something when they need it. I think in this day and age most kids will too, but they are usually lacking the foundation of basic skills to get very far with anything super complicated.

  4. Adults learn best when the information applies to what they are doing right now. This applies to kids too. Both teachers and IDs call it chunking.

  5. Adults are motivated to learn because of something they want for themselves. Some kids have internal motivators too.


So any time you hear about "adult learning theory" it is based some or all of these 5 pillars. My team applies these pillars in our courses by only telling them what they need to know when they need to know it. We remove the 'nice to knows' completely. And all of our courses are "on demand" trainings which our learners can access through the LMS.


Here is the list of "adult learning theories" from the New England Institute of Technology's "Complete Guide to Adult Learning Theory." You can click on the link to read it yourself or scroll through the abridged version below.

"Adult" Learning Theory

How it Applies to Kids (I taught)

Transformative Learning - task oriented problem solving and communicating feelings, needs, and desires. Through these learning experiences, learners challenge their existing understanding and adopt a new perspective.

I literally did a project with students where they had to argue a "Hot Topic" from various perspectives and explain how each one could use evidence to change the other side's position. During the reading of Touching Spirit Bear (a great book) many of my most troubled students underwent their own transformation along with the main character, Cole.

Self-Directed Learning - learners must exercise control over their learning decisions. Students set and regulate their own learning goals.

It's called "Independent Study" in high school. I did it myself. I did it again in college. I have allowed both middle school and high school students complete their own "Independent Studies' because they didn't "like" the topic we were discussing in class.

Experiential Learning - hands-on approach with real-world application.

Have you heard of STEM? I taught at a STEM Middle school. While we didn't do things the way I think a STEM school should. the kids definitely had projects rooted in real-world experiences.

Project-Based Learning - self-explanatory.

It's called "Project-Based" or "Problem-Based" learning and it is at the heart of STEM Education, but many teachers do it because it is a highly-engaging way to teach. I had my students plan a school carnival complete with letters to vendors, budget planning, advertisements, map of the venue, and a listing of all the attractions.

Action Learning - very similar to STEM and PBL above - students identify the problem and the solutions to fix it.

See PBL above.

Cooperative and Collaborative Learning

Yeah, ok. Kids NEVER do this. Please.

Discovery Learning - pretty close to Action learning except the learner is supposed to rely on past experiences, knowledge, and intuition. The learner needs to find the answers.

Research project. A colleague of mine did a Social Justice project with her students and the kids loved it. They identified some kind of social injustice and took steps to address it either by writing a letter to legislators, creating an AD Campaign, or talking at a School Board Meeting.

Elaboration Learning - ideas are presented from simple to complex.

Have you done math?

Social Learning - observing, modeling, and imitating other's behaviors and emotional reactions.

Tik Tok

Individualized Learning - learner explores topics of interest on their own and in any order they want

Did we mention this thing called Independent Study?

Behaviorism - BF Skinner - la tabula rasa.

Yeah, we all studied him.

Cognitivism - Schema

Is this Learning Theory 101? I am pretty sure I took this course as an undergrad.

Constructivism - Piaget & Vygotsky

Have I been here before? It's like de ja vu all over again.

Have I made my point? I hope so. And I hope a few "seasoned IDs" out there read this post and accept that a degree in education is relatively equivalent to theirs.


Challenge:

If you majored in Secondary Ed, find your college transcript and name of the course you took that discussed these learning theories! Add it to the comments on LinkedIn.


Sources:


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